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Daniel Z. Lieberman, M.D. is professor and vice chair for clinical affairs in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at George Washington University. Dr. Lieberman is a Distinguished Fellow of the American Psychiatric Association, a recipient of the Caron Foundation Research Award, and he has published over 50 scientific reports on behavioral science. He has provi... Daniel Lieberman: So, to get a sense of what it feels like to have dopamine pushing you along versus trying to go forward without dopamine. Think about working on a project that you're incredibly excited about. Typically, it's going to be a project that involves some degree of creativity. I do a little bit of programming. I also love to make PowerPoint presentations. I'm a total nerd. Mike Long: I'll add just this because that's right on the nose. If you're aware that there are two ways to anticipate or to experience the world, to anticipate it or to experience it and to learn which one is the troll point for you. For most people, probably most people listening to this podcast, It's going to be on the dopaminergic side.
Molecule of More: How a Single Chemical in Your Brain The Molecule of More: How a Single Chemical in Your Brain
Kaitlin Luna: Yes, that's not totally surprising. But, I guess the question that this leads me to is do different people have different amounts of dopamine in their brains that could influence this type of behavior? Daniel Lieberman: Because that's what dopamine does. It says here’s something new. There might be something useful in this that will help me in the future. Help me reproduce or keep me safe or whatever it is. In the case of loves, my goodness, look at this possibility. It's right in front of me and you get this euphoria and the more you learn about the thing, the less there is to explore, and the dopamine begins to fade. It describes the fact that the initial buzz of something exciting doesn’t last and this is due to the effect of the molecule receding. Something else is needed to maintain the initial excitement, whether that be love at first sight, the taste of a new food, or the buzz you get when you produce your first music single or work of art. Kaitlin Luna: Okay, because I read an article that said you can eat more protein, exercise and sleep more. Is that even true? Kaitlin Luna: Yes, something about inspiration. Yeah, you’re talking about, you know, this dopamine can help with inspiration. You said making connections.Mike Long: That fine line between oh, here, these things and I could put them together into something useful. And here are these things and they're just going to spill out.
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Kaitlin Luna: And you're talking about achievement with dopamine. How it helps us push us to this next level. So, what is the role of dopamine in making it successful? So, I want to talk about how it makes a successful and also how can make us, you know, lie, cheat, steal and do all sorts of bad things, you know, commit an act of violence?Daniel Lieberman: That's why there's a fine line between art and insanity. Sometimes we don't know. Sometimes initially we say, this is crazy. This is not art. And then maybe a few decades later we take a second look and we say “wait a minute. That is art.”
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Kaitlin Luna: But, you, you could do elaborate things that are you seeing this presentation, though, it really captures your attention. It can be boring and could be interesting, right? Kaitlin Luna: So, you think you'd be more difficult if you were sitting somewhere remotely conduct using a drone as opposed to being flying a plane or something? You've got hundreds of girlfriends. And, like the cocaine addict who no longer gets pleasure from the drug but has to keep doing it, he was no longer getting pleasure from these encounters. But, he couldn't make that transition for one reason or another to the companionate phase.Kaitlin Luna: So, for people with serious mental illness, I mean, what is, what does dopamine do to a break someone's brain. And how is that treated? Kaitlin Luna: This is probably something that studied in psychiatry a lot are, you know, in the medical field? Daniel Z. Lieberman, MD, is professor and vice chair for clinical affairs in the department of psychiatry and behavioral sciences at George Washington University. Lieberman is a distinguished fellow of the American Psychiatric Association, a recipient of the Caron Foundation Research Award and he has published over 50 scientific reports on behavioral science. He has provided insight on psychiatric issues for the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, the U.S. Department of Commerce, and the Office of Drug and Alcohol Policy and has discussed mental health in interviews on CNN, C-SPAN and PBS. Lieberman received his medical degree and completed his psychiatric training at New York University. Provide is more to the left. Let's make this country a better place. Let's progress more. Protect is more to the right. Let's maintain the good things that we have and that's more here and now, neurotransmitters. Kaitlin Luna: And it also, dopamine can also push us, too. By the act of achieving, you might also be hurting other people, correct?
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Daniel Lieberman: We don't know exactly. Let's say you keep reading and you run across your own name. You're going to get a big surge of dopamine. So, dopamine responds to things in the environment that your brain thinks is important to you. Mike Long: There's a scene in a motion picture that Woody Allen picture actually, and the parents are talking there in the 1940s. And the mother goes, she has cancer, just whispers, and then they make a big thing about how you never said it out loud. Kaitlin Luna: Interesting, ethical, you know, as we were more removed by using technology, some interesting ethical issues that come into play. But, yeah, you mentioned about winning. So, you're mourning and morality. I think that leads me to my next question about politics. So, how is dopamine involved in politics? And does it affect whether we're liberal, conservative or moderate? Mike Long: It's so important, and I say that I'm projecting it onto other people, I know. But, as I learned this material, it was, again, just such a revelation for me to see that when you talk about love, you're talking about two very different things. You're talking about the romantic phase, the passionate phase, and then you're talking about the companion phase. And there are those of us who never escape the romantic phase, which sounds kind of exciting until you think about what that really means. Mike Long: Dopamine sets us up to appreciate the world, to experience the world in two ways. And for me, this was, this was a revelatory. We have things that we appreciate — the color of your top right now, the color of the walls of the room, the feel of this table, a taste of a cup of water here I have. Things that we experience in the moment. We appreciate what they're like. That's one way we spend our time.Kaitlin Luna: Do you think that's where the conversations are going in this country about how to treat addictions that we're seeing?
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